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User talk:Unclesporky
Welcome Hi, welcome to the ! Probably nobody has yet looked at your edit to the Quests page, but someone will. Please leave a message on my talk page if I can help with anything! CompleCCity (talk) 12:35, October 31, 2019 (UTC) Category links Hi! If you want to link to a category, use a colon right behind the opening brackets, such as innocent. However, innocent redirects to that category and can also be used. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 22:22, November 3, 2019 (UTC) :Thanks for the tip...yeah, I was just trying to link him as an innocent. And thanks for the tip on Lendarn too, writing him in as explicitly not required for the quest...I saw it more as correcting a common misconception, and to make sure that future editors don't say "wait! This other guy is down there too, you have to kill him too!" But I defer to more experienced editors. Unclesporky (talk) 23:05, November 3, 2019 (UTC) ::You're welcome. My "experience" made me understand your intention about Lendarn. ;) Let's keep it this way for a while – someday that common misconception may have become uncommon, and we can remove that from the pages. Or still keep it, who knows … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 23:41, November 3, 2019 (UTC) Person Hi. Another thing: if you're going to make more edits of the sort you've already done, I would welcome it if you tried to not use second person, like addressing the reader with "you". I know – many, many articles on the wiki do it this way, but using different wording is preferred (in general on most wikis). Try to choose "Gorion's Ward", "the party" or the "protagonist" instead. I also know that this might be much effort, so I certainly don't insist on it – only an idea, a proposal. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:31, November 4, 2019 (UTC) I was specifically referring to on The Seven Suns. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:42, November 4, 2019 (UTC) :Apologies for that. I think thus far I have been trying to maintain the same style as the existing page I'm editing somewhat, and as I haven't looked through all the quest pages vs. NPC pages vs. item pages I don't know what voice is most commonly used on each. I assumed that "walkthrough voice" could use "you." :On this note I have a few random questions: :*Do you have a preference for "Gorion's Ward", "the party", the "protagonist", or even the "player?" I think there is a place for "player" when you're expressing things in mechanical terms rather than fictional terms, such as "loot the container on the left" instead of "open the chest to the west." :*Should every instance of Gold be replaced with ? What's the preferred link for XP? :*Similarly, should I replace and with and wherever I see them? Seems like a replacement in progress here, the smaller icons fit easier everywhere. :*Should these icons only be used as a tag, or can they be referred to in text? Example: :::: The chest contains a Short Sword +1 :::: The chest contains nothing :::vs. ::::In the chest contains a Short Sword +1, but in the chest is empty. ::*Is there a page with some sort of style guide that would answer these questions? :Unclesporky (talk) 13:24, November 4, 2019 (UTC) ::No need for apologies! And, of course, if you're only adding a section and don't want to rewrite the whole page, you should keep the form. I haven't checked your edit in detail, but on a first impression it did look like a complete rewriting – that's why I mentioned this. ::And specifically walkthrough sections – also on other wikis – often use second person; it's only something I'd like to change here (though I have written like this, myself). ::A citation from the ''Dragon Age'' Wiki's Manual of Style, a valuable source as I think: :: Outside of direct quotation, the third person must be used in 'walkthrough' sections and the first person ("I") should only be used on talk pages. The second person is only acceptable when referring to the player outside of the game world, for example in controls and character creation pages. The term "the player" should only be used to refer to the individual playing the game, not a character. ::So, even in your example, it still would be a party member and not "you" who's opening the container. ;) ::"Gorion's Ward" or "the Ward", "(the) party" or a "party member", the "protagonist" – choose what matches best and try to not be too repititive; no specific preferences (I think). ::Gold Piece, gold pieces, gold, GP, gp or – again, what matches best, I think. (But avoid Gold Pieces.) ::Oh – that one. I plan to move Experience Tables to "Experience" one day. Until then, as above; use e.g. XP where it shall be brief and experience when being descriptive. ::And another 'favorite' topic – the icons (and similar) … ::No, no style guide, unfortunately. ::I have to admit that my intention of making their usage more clear by naming them either "infobox" or "article" is misleading. In fact, those that are named "infobox" should be used when placed as a leading icon, even outside infoboxes, while the "article" ones fit better when used as superscript at the end of a sentence. :::As I just notice, I've either done something wrong with (at least some of) the "article" icons or the whole concept isn't working as intended. Seems, like "infobox" matches better in any place. ::None of them never should be used in floating text as in your last example. Though this is also done very often, currently – and is the cause for multiple issues, besides just looking bad. ::As for your examples: again, why mention something that is not? How exactly such things can be listed, depends on where you want to note this information. Inside a list of notable loot, e.g.: ::*Pearl Necklace ::* Ninjatō +1 ::* ::Within a paragraph, e.g.: :: Further down the corridor, there's a locked chest. It contains a Ninjatō +1. ::However, in this case, for clarity I would prefer: :: Further down the corridor, there's a locked chest. In the Enhanced Edition, it contains a Ninjatō +1. ::For the other icons you're mentioning – yes, it is indeed some replacement process, but not exactly in the way you think to understand it: the four templates , , and shall replace and , due to the width of the latter two. ::*The smaller ones should be used inside infoboxes or as superscript, the larger ones at the start of a list item, for example. (And here, it does work.) ::Use these if you're covering information that's different between editions in general and applies to more than one game. If you want to distinguish between facts from one (perhaps two) specific game(s), the dedicated icon(s) should be used. ::Still questions? ;) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:28, November 4, 2019 (UTC) :::Thanks for the response, I'll try to keep these things in mind. :::As far as "why mention something that is not", my thinking on that is that I'm left wondering whether (for example) a chest in original BG1 contains nothing, or whether the editor doesn't have access to the original BG1 and just made an assumption that content was exclusive to EE. I suppose it makes sense to assume that anything without a tag should apply to every release of the game, though. :::Unclesporky (talk) 15:47, November 4, 2019 (UTC) ::::And this latest edit of yours is a perfect example for the above mentioned issues: take a look at the "Within a paragraph, e.g." section. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 16:12, November 4, 2019 (UTC) Screenshots Hi. If I may ask you a favor? Please, turn off hints when making screenshots. An infobox image that holds the name above the character's head is not a good one. ;) Preferred (by me) format: zoomed 0%, no outlines, 300 × 185 px. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 00:02, November 13, 2019 (UTC) :I agree, the nametag was a mistake but it's the screenshot I have right now. Unfortunately also it's from the Nintendo Switch, which you can't get raw shots from, it has to be posted through Twitter which introduces compression. But I was at that part of the game and thought it would be better than no screenshot. Someone will have to play through (or quickly hack through) up to chapter 7 on PC (and preferably get all the other NPCs who only show up to direct the player only in that chapter). : :Personally though I think it looks alright with the outlines, really helps them stand out against the background. Unclesporky (talk) 00:34, November 13, 2019 (UTC) ::Wasn't aware of that, so you're right then: better than none. ::The outlines: I agree that some characters are really hard to see, especially for people with color issues. (Take a look at Chase, for example.) But when I first saw those, I thought "how ugly". And Ineth, me and others, we had discussions on various wikis about character/creature screenshots and how they should look like – the above "preference" is a result from that. (It's – adjusted to the game – even written into a guideline on one wiki.) ::As for the missing ones from a future walkthrough: I still plan to do that with both editions, because many creatures had a change in design between them, and you wouldn't recognize e.g. a watcher if you're knowing only one of them. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 09:11, November 13, 2019 (UTC) Numbers presented without context :) Islandking's love for "opcodes" … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 19:45, November 24, 2019 (UTC) :Yeah, I sort of understood what the numbers signified, but such effects are referred to in other parts of this wiki without these numbers (like Status Effects), and they would simply be confusing to a layman without an attached explanation of what they mean. I think we should defer to plain text when possible. Unclesporky (talk) 20:56, November 24, 2019 (UTC) Erroneous bullet point Ha ha! Also Islandking's idea: this could inspire readers to add more points (I mean, not literally ;). -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 19:48, November 24, 2019 (UTC) :Ha...I don't really agree that we should leave hanging bits of punctuation around looking like typos to try to inspire others. People will add more if they feel more needs to be said. :) Unclesporky (talk) 20:57, November 24, 2019 (UTC) Point(y)ness No page about a real in-game creature is pointless. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:08, November 27, 2019 (UTC) Thanks! Hello. Now it's time to thank you for that long needed article. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 16:07, November 27, 2019 (UTC) :No problem! We needed it! Unclesporky (talk) 17:07, November 27, 2019 (UTC) Area names Hi. Just noticed your tents-renamings. Above all else, even that Lua file, should go in-game names. The "Diviner's Tent" is labeled "The Fortune Teller" on map, that's why I gave that as location (without a link, though). So, "The Fortune Teller's tent" would be the better name in my opinion. (And The Fortune Teller already redirects to Haspur.) As of this – any opinion on uppercase/lowercase spelling of generic, non-noted building names, such as "XYZ's H/h-ome"? I mentioned this on the thread … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 19:04, November 29, 2019 (UTC) :Two reasons I decided to make that change...first on Haspur's page, it begins saying "The Diviner, also known as the Fortune Teller Haspur," so I took it that he was understood as the Diviner. Second reason, its in-game name via console menu is Diviner's Marketplace Tent: https://i.imgur.com/PUBg7Y8.png : :My opinion on generic homes is to capitalize their spelling, because they are becoming a sort of proper noun on this wiki via their entry. They are non-generic by virtue of being looked up by that name. I also believe this is fairly common wiki standards...anything deserving of its own page and heading tends to be capitalized in this way, across most wikis. A couple examples from other games: :https://pillarsofeternity.gamepedia.com/Lumdala%27s_House :https://en.uesp.net/wiki/Skyrim:Heimskr%27s_House :Unclesporky (talk) 19:12, November 29, 2019 (UTC) ::Replying without having looked into further edits, the thread or my talk page … ::Hehe, it's "in-game name via console menu" is "Diviner's marketplace tent". ;) ::But – my opinion on those console names is to use them only in cases we don't have anything else to go with. First, it's only accessible for owners of the Enhanced Editions; second, it deviates for many areas from established or 'better' names; third, it adds unneeded stuff and comments, like the present NPCs, for example (and why did you make it "Diviner's Tent", omitting the "Marketplace"? ;) ::I repeat, "above all else should go in-game names", though perhaps I was a bit inconsistent in the first, and "The Fortune Teller" as location would even suffice, without "Tent". (IIRC, that was even my intention when giving that as location and creating the redirect.) ::"Diviner" is only his in-game tooltip name … ::On a side note: I've started to add the console names as "Other names" on e.g. General Stores. ::As for capitalization: there's a number of wikis handling this different. In fact, the mentioned Pillars of Eternity wiki has once started to move many, many things to lowercase spelling – without, however, this becoming common and general for all things, so that's a very incosistent example. Take a look at the Fallout wiki's capitalization guideline for what I have in mind (and I'm citing these two wikis as they are my origins of wikiing – sort of). Generic houses/homes, for example, use lowercase on Nukapedia and the Vault. Of course, this needs redirects with the other spelling. ::Hm, this really should be in the thread … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:40, November 30, 2019 (UTC) Redirects Hi again. As you've started to move lots of pages, would you please add the leftovers to the category:Redirects? Thanks. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 11:10, November 30, 2019 (UTC) :Same, of course, for created redirects. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 11:12, November 30, 2019 (UTC) Correct-ish? What's ? ;) There are still people out there, playing the original games, so we shouldn't use past tense in such cases. That's also the reason why I always say "this is fixed in the Enhanced Edition" in bugs sections. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:21, December 6, 2019 (UTC) :I believe "Oopah has no alignment given" was correct in English, but the sentence is still worded oddly, that's why I said correct-ish. Most English speakers would say "was not given an alignment" or "is not given an alignment," or simply "has no alignment." The original was sort of like how Yoda speaks. :"Oopah is no alignment given" is wrong though. The original had an implied bit at the end, "Oopah has no alignment given him," and maybe you can see how this wouldn't make sense with "is." It is like saying "she has no bananas," and changing that to "she is no bananas." :) :But I know English is really complicated and the order of words is really fluid. You could also say "Oopah has no given alignment," and in this case "given" would be an adjective to describe the alignment (one that is given)! Actually...I think that's the best way to describe how it originally was. "Given" was an adjective in this case instead of verb. Unclesporky (talk) 13:52, December 6, 2019 (UTC) Memorized spells Hi! If you're going to add more such sections on characters … and if you want to put a bit more effort into it, you could also take a look into the creatures' scripts, to see which of these spells are actually used – in some cases, there are spells memorized that will never be cast. There are examples of how I created a similar section, but I can't tell you which of them was the latest and which may really serve as an example, but you can see the idea on Sheila. (In addition, the infobox has a field for this, too, where I usually also exclude the spells that won't be used.) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:31, December 10, 2019 (UTC) :I had planned to eventually play through the battle and simply watch what spells they seem likely to cast. But looking at one of the scripts it looks fairly simple and readable. Unclesporky (talk) 12:14, December 10, 2019 (UTC) ::Guess what...all of the casters in the Iron Throne Headquarters are actually coded to cast all of their spells! Unclesporky (talk) 13:41, December 10, 2019 (UTC) Item icons Hi. You may be interested in this. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 17:23, December 11, 2019 (UTC) :If you ever run into a case where an icon is missing a shadowed version due to EE problems, I could probably create an edit of the icon that is identical to what it would have looked like in-game. Unclesporky (talk) 18:04, December 11, 2019 (UTC) ::Thanks for the offer! -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 18:17, December 11, 2019 (UTC) General Buildings Hey Unclesporky, what happened to your awesome page with the general buildings? I can't find it anymore. It used to be under General Buildings (Baldur's Gate).--Mortain87 (talk) 18:55, December 11, 2019 (UTC) :Try Generic Buildings (Baldur's Gate), where it has been from the start. ;) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 19:21, December 11, 2019 (UTC) ::Duh.. I am sorry for having asked... Thank you. Do you and CompleCCity think it is ok to refer to it right now or is a major change planned? I would like to finish the big project of Areas. --Mortain87 (talk) 20:07, December 11, 2019 (UTC) :::I was wondering about that too. Is it ok to treat these pages as official and link to them wherever needed? I would hate to have to change all that later. :::Generic homes pages without full text of their contents aren't really ready to be linked to in my opinion, I would need to confirm the area codes of their second floors and make them part of the names as I did in Generic homes (northwest Baldur's Gate) etc. In every case so far it's been the very next code (20 -> 21) but I'd want to make sure. :::I cannot think of a better way to name the generic homes than to incorporate their code. I don't want to use non-game naming schemes like "brown-roofed house" etc. Unclesporky (talk) 20:29, December 11, 2019 (UTC) ::::Well, I can't promise that there won't be a change for the pagenames (though I can't think of any for the disambiguated ones at the moment). However, if you'd use the "anchors", Unclesporky, as I proposed, and linking to each and every house would be possible by using e.g. …, then it would be very easy to update any link to them. Links even wouldn't be affected by any change to the headings themselves if one day somebody should feel the urge to indeed name some home a "brown-roofed house" (unless the "span"-code isn't removed by that person). ;) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 21:24, December 11, 2019 (UTC) :::::Could you please do one in the format you would like to see it? Just the first one on Generic homes (northwest Baldur's Gate) if that's ok, including changing the name of the house if you think it needs it, or how it is displayed (area code superscript? Code tags?) Unclesporky (talk) 21:32, December 11, 2019 (UTC) ::::::*Haven't changed the name, applied the Template:Location1 to the first header and used superscript for the second – see for yourself. ::::::*Anchor only in the first, with a test link to it in the next section. ::::::*Changed heading level to – there shouldn't be -headings if there are none of the superior type. ::::::*Placed an image in a box. :) ::::::*Moved TOC to right – your decision. ::::::You could individualize the lead on the various pages – looks odd to me, seeing Gantolandan's Home being referred to in a quarter where it definitely not can be found. ::::::-- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 21:53, December 11, 2019 (UTC) :::::::Regarding the lead containing Gantolandan's Home, I wasn't sure whether a non-generic home would be present in every location to refer to in the lead, so I attempted to pick two named homes completely at random to emphasize that it applies to any of them named that way. Unclesporky (talk) 22:12, December 11, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::Just a thought, resulting from this: what about adding the non-generic homes (perhaps homes only) in a see-also section? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 23:04, December 11, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::It seems to me that adding the ids was accepted by everyone. I went ahead and started adding the span ids. A quick question: why is the order of the building the way it is right now and not according to the area codes? Is it according to the appearing? Just wondering. Great job again Unclesporky and since this is your project I wanted to ask you if you need help filling out the rest. I hope it's ok that I am doing the span ids, because I am getting sick of those red links in Areas. --Mortain87 (talk) 08:39, December 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::I admit the order was roughly chosen in the order I looked at these houses. Generally houses that are next to each other or in a line go in sequence. If anyone re-orders these houses you will have to double check the description of their location, because in some cases I wrote "east of the house above" "west of the previous house" etc. That can be corrected if it needs to be. I might do this. ::::::::::It is perfectly fine to add the second floors and do the span ids, that is very helpful and at last the links will be somewhat set in stone. I've been busy and distracted with various other things, but so far I was doing my best to be very consistent about wording all the descriptions and the order of everything...location, is the front door locked, what DC, who lives on the first floor, what about their containers and DC, who lives on the second floor, what about their containers and DC. In Near Infinity if the containers say they are trapped with a 100 difficulty trap, that essentially means it's a "call the guards" container. Stuff like that. So I guess if I would like them all to be consistently the same I should work on them more. ::::::::::If you want to make more of the redlinked pages on Generic Buildings (Baldur's Gate) you could do that too, like for Beregost, or Gullykin, or the one single generic home in Friendly Arm Inn, etc. and do them up the same way with span ids. And if you want to do those descriptions that is fine, right now I'm focusing on the city of Baldur's Gate. ::::::::::I don't know what's best for that Ogre Mage House. When I was putting together the lists I was checking what the developers named each building internally, and houses with a name like Fenten's House I didn't consider generic, but "Ogre Mage" isn't really a name. However it could be called that and given its own page. ::::::::::Also: when you are changing links to headings, like adding the span ids to Durlag's Tower, it might be a good idea to do a quick check of "what links here" to see if you are breaking any existing links to those headings. It is the tiny bar at the bottom of the screen, My Tools, What Links Here. One example I need to fix is The Protector where I had linked directly to a home before the span id system was set up, so that link needs to be changed. I don't think you broke anything with Durlag's Tower, I just wanted to let you know about that in case you hadn't seen it yet. Unclesporky (talk) 12:25, December 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::Ah I just realized...you made span id links to Durlag's Tower Walkthrough, and not Durlag's Tower, the actual area page. Maybe those links should be made on the actual area page...honestly a lot of the content in the walkthrough should be part of the area page, I think. Loot and monsters on each floor and such, like other areas have. But nothing should be deleted from the walkthrough at this point either. Unclesporky (talk) 12:41, December 12, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::*"What links here" cannot check direct section links, it will only show what links to the page in general. :::::::::::*While you're already working on the headings, would you mind correcting their level everywhere? Haven't checked every page, but I think it will in almost every case be only two equal signs, rather than three. :::::::::::*Mortain87, have you noticed this discussion? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:48, December 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::I will stubbornly continue indenting until this is unreadable! :) ::::::::::::Re: "What links here" cannot check direct section links, it will only show what links to the page in general. ::::::::::::Not true, notice that this page includes the direct section link from The Protector: https://baldursgate.fandom.com/wiki/Special:WhatLinksHere/Generic_homes_(northwest_Baldur%27s_Gate) ::::::::::::Unclesporky (talk) 12:54, December 12, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::Thank you for the tip Unclesporky! I can correct the headings level, sure. I just wasn't sure it was settled on which style to use. And no I had not noticed this discussion. Wow that is a lot of text. Unfortunately I will not have as much time as I had until now in the next few weeks, but I will try my best. I totally agree that the Durlag's Tower Walkthrough should be integrated in the actual page of Durlag's Tower.--Mortain87 (talk) 12:58, December 12, 2019 (UTC) ::::::::::::::If it becomes unreadable, spares us perhaps some time … ;) ::::::::::::::Heading level is no choice of style, but one of the most basic wikiing rules. ::::::::::::::I meant, if you change a heading, the "what links here" will still find the page. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:07, December 12, 2019 (UTC) :::::::::::::::Oh, I see what you meant now. Unclesporky (talk) 14:45, December 12, 2019 (UTC) Overstepping your bounds? Hi. You can be sure, I monitor this, so there may follow some edits by me, more talk, perhaps even a revert. Just saying. Go on, I don't think you're adding foolish stuff. :) -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:17, December 12, 2019 (UTC) Some sources: *''Dragon Age'' Wiki policies and guidelines *[[w:c:icewinddale:Category:Infoboxes|Infoboxes on the Icewind Dale Wiki]] – Ineth is doing quite a good job on their documentations *NPC screenshots – the discussion on IWDW that was the basis for my golden-ratio statement *Pillars of Eternity Wiki:Guidelines – has also a good screenshot guideline from Ineth *''Fallout'' Wiki:Policies and guidelines – for the more general and less content related stuff -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 15:45, December 12, 2019 (UTC) And y'know what? Sorry, I had to use this as a new heading, though what follows actually belongs to the above. :D That reads very restrictive, but at the moment I don't know how to make it less so. Again, if you could take a look at the images I applied to the Candlekeep areas and the quests I linked on the thread: I used very different resolutions and ratios for all those screenshots I did upload for them, and used 300×185px directly only for those where no larger size was needed. 300px would be important as a minimum width, so that the infobox is filled and doesn't have borders as is the case on many creature pages. However, the larger the screenshot, and if it shall be used inside an infobox, the more it will be downscaled for view – which I thought is a disadvantage on e.g. Entar's Son. Perhaps all this would better be (also) included on Baldur's Gate Wiki:Images … Hey, I notice things right now as you're editing that page, I even didn't know of before – ha! Every language possible on talk pages? I always ask to use English … Do you think it's possible to soften the "Lore" passage in a way that citing out-of-universe information in a trivia, background or similar section doesn't seem so risky? ;) By the way, what do you think about merging all "Notes" and "Trivia" (and similar if existent somewhere) into a section named "Lore" on articles? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 18:39, December 13, 2019 (UTC) :I can write it less restrictive, as well as talking about 300 pixels as a minimum for that reason. By the way, the Project:Images linked there gives completely different pixel sizes, that page should probably be edited? I don't know to what, though. :I believe that Notes and Trivia have two different unique purposes, and Lore would be another unique thing. Perhaps this is only me and my understanding of what sections like these would include... :*Notes: extra minor facts which may not fit into the rest of the article, and possibly cut content or information from game files. Anything that is still directly related to the game. For example on a quest page, this could include some facts surrounding the quest, like what happens before or after. See The Mummy's Orders#Notes. Notes could even be more of a "feeling" thing...information a little more detailed than fits the tone of other sections, such as Xzar and Montaron#Notes. :*Trivia: minor facts from outside the game, such as references in other media or games...or external things that the game references. See Viconia DeVir#Trivia or Baeloth Barrityl#Trivia, or even Borinole Mann#Trivia. I would consider Bub Snikt#Wolverine references to be trivia, and also Dradeel's recipe pages#Lore entry about Scooby Doo to be trivia. :*Lore: in other contexts this is generally understood to mean content related to fictional histories. In other words the context of Forgotten Realms, ignoring gameplay systems and talking about stories and events, common knowledge of the realms. An example of this is how the UESP wiki is divided into gameplay pages (mechanics and numbers) and lore pages (the histories of men and mer, dates, wars etc.). Could overlap with trivia but the word has more of a connotation of history and storytelling. :Unclesporky (talk) 19:40, December 13, 2019 (UTC) ::Thanks – the section about screenshots sounds better now. Resolutions, given on the other project page, date back to pre-mobile infoboxes and item description images and icons using a background, rather than transparency; I'll take care of it. ::Many editors don't distinguish between "notes" and "trivia", and add information of the actual latter category to the former. Various wikis use different terms for trivia, such as "background" or "behind the scenes". My idea behind this was to reduce the number of headings, making the table of contents shorter, and use a word that's related to in-game terminology; such as I've started to add a "statistics" section to item articles. Many things that currently go under notes, could be incorporated in other sections or are indeed trivia. And as we're dealing with a single subject on this wiki, a game series, I think things like cultural references build this game series' "lore" and may well be combined with other background knowledge. The Wiktionary defines lore as "all the facts and traditions about a particular subject that have been accumulated over time through education or experience" and "the backstory created around a fictional universe" – is this so different from my intention, collecting interesting facts not directly related to gameplay? ::-- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:38, December 14, 2019 (UTC) ::Forgot something: would you prefer a comma as separator for coordinates? Because – the related templates have a period instead. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:39, December 14, 2019 (UTC) :::I believe most peoples' current understanding of "lore" would be the understanding that it's in-universe histories. Like if you are reading History of the Dead Three, you are reading lore. I know that in some contexts you could consider facts surrounding these games to be lore (about the games instead of its universe), but I personally would find that to be a confusing heading. Just doesn't feel like the right word choice. :::If you wanted to simplify everything down to a single heading, "Notes" is the broadest choice that could also cover trivia. It could even be "Notes and trivia?" I wouldn't find it a major concern if both headings continued to exist, since trivia should be more of a rare occurrence. There aren't as many external references inside or outside of the game as there are general notes that don't fit in anywhere else. :::I didn't know what you meant about coordinate templates. Where can I see this? Of course there could be a period separator, I just didn't know there was a template. Unclesporky (talk) 20:21, December 14, 2019 (UTC) ::::The templates that are used for these superscript things on so many pages, and (split from – I think, I haven't added a documentation, yet, so look at this one). ::::Hm … so, I added quite a many such sections if it's about a note related to p'n'p AD&D rules or background, which then would make a third section. I've also used this section to replace "Description", but for the identified item description of non-generic magic items only, or at least, if that is quite different from the unidentifed one. I have to think a bit more about this … I wouldn't like "Notes and trivia", as I prefer headings to be as brief as possible (to keep the TOC narrow). -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 21:08, December 14, 2019 (UTC) Comments and other talk – and me and my non-native understanding of the English language Hi! Hope, you had a merry Christmas. :) As an administrator here, one of my tasks is to moderate e.g. article comments (and the new discussions feature). However, as a non-native English speaking person, there might be misunderstandings on my side, especially if it's about slang, abbreviations, and sometimes also expression of emotions (urban dictionary has become my friend). As far as I know, you're a native speaker – and perhaps have less issues with such things. Uh … what I actually wanted to say – would there be the need for deleting some of the recent comments on Neera? -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 10:15, December 30, 2019 (UTC) :No, I don't think so. I think it was just a little back-and-forth, nobody is cussing anyone out. It bothers me when the only response someone has is to label someone else more offended than they are, but I don't think moderation is required. Unclesporky (talk) 12:43, December 30, 2019 (UTC) Confusingly written texts by me And I was so proud of having found some wording that would better integrate Xzar and Montaron into that sentence, rather than making the two one name of something … -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 12:53, December 30, 2019 (UTC) :Sorry...I did not mean the change to be a rebuke of your writing. But it seems to have confused at least one reader. Do you think adding the "about" disambiguation is too much? Because the same thing is basically stated in the article too. It can be removed if it's too much. :In my opinion it is best if all articles begin along the lines of "X is a quest," "X is a sword," "X is a potential companion" just to state it plainly in a summary so people know what page they have found themselves on. But that is just me. Unclesporky (talk) 13:05, December 30, 2019 (UTC) ::It was just my attempt to be a bit less technical and more descriptive. Though I have to bow to your argument – articles shouldn't be written confusingly. -- -- You talkin' to me? -- cC -- 13:27, December 30, 2019 (UTC)